View Full Version : ZWV 7 and 14 to come on the public repository?

David Hein
18-07-2007, 02:38 PM
Hello all!

Recently I noticed that the public pository contains folders for the masses ZWV 7 and 14. Now I am curious to listen to it. Who of you is doing this most valuable work? Are you able to say something about the style of these masses? How much is ZWV 14 turning to the later style of Zelenkas compositions?

Best regards!
David, very curious

19-07-2007, 01:28 AM
Hi David,

I got my hands on 6 masses not long ago, Zwv 7 and Zwv 14 are two of them. They are copies of original manuscripts, but the copies are sometimes difficult to read because the notelines are faded or completely gone. Only the notes left.

Zwv 7 are in style something like Zwv 11, but somewhat simpler. I think the work was written in haste; oboe parts are not written out, even if the titlepage suggests it. In the violin parts a few places one can read senza oboe, oboe col. soprano. But no solo passages or movement for woodwind.
The 1. and 2. trompet have interesting material, even if the range is within an octave. The 3.trompet got the most boring part Zelenka ever wrote. The only note the instrument play, with few exceptions, are A. Either the musician in 1726 was a very limitid player, or Zelenka didnt have high expectations of him.
The 4. trumped double the timpani, ie plays either deep A or D.
Just now I am working on the last movement of Gloria.
First moment of Gloria is very fun to listen too. Look forward to it.

I use a program called Vivaldi where I plot in each note and set tempo and arrange basso continue part.. The program then makes midi file, which sounds like a Mickey mouse orchestra. Then I upload the midifiles, so Alistair can put them in repository.
Skiaouros then downloads my midis and is the Wizard transforming my Mickey Mouse sound to something far, far better. Mp3's.
Zwv 1,15,16,85,91,96 and 167 Skiaouros did all the work himself, all from midi to mp3.
My part have been minor, only doing midi of Zwv 29,56,3(Kyrie) and 7(Kyrie and Gloria).

Zwv 14 I only made 30 bars so far. The manuscripts is in very bad shape, because of the bombing of Dreden in 1945, So the progress is slow. Every 4. bar is badly damaged or totally crumbled away.
Skiaouros have made Mp3 of 24 bars.
Where Zwv 7 is somewhat hasty, Zwv 14 is a very well written piece.
Its grand. In the 24 bars the oboes,flutes,bassoon,horns and trompets all have solo voices, and sounds great.
After I finish the Gloria of Zwv 7, I try using more time to complete the Kyrie of Zwv 14.

In style Zwv 14 is completely different from Zwv 13 most of you have heard.
The style is more like Zwv 16 (see repository). But the Kyrie is far more complex and after my opinion his best arranged movement for large orchestra.

In style I would group the masses I have heard in following groups;

1)Zwv 1,3 Early masses
2)Zwv 7,11,13 Middle masses
3)Zwv 14,15,16 (any good name for those 3 ?)
4)Zwv 17-21 Late masses.

I guess Alistair upload my midi to repository soon. Skiaouros have access to the Zwv 7 midis, so he upload them to Alistair when he have time to make them.

Would like to write more, but the clock is past 0100 am, so I stop here.

David Hein
19-07-2007, 11:37 AM

Both of you are doing great work! Thanks a lot! When I found the two Kyrie of ZWV 7 and 14 I was very excited. Especially the Kyrie I of ZWV 14 is magnificient. This mass promises to be of great architecture.

Again, thanks a lot for your great work!

David Hein
19-07-2007, 11:38 AM
Maybe we call the masses ZWV 14-16 the "transition masses" because Zelenka's style undergoes a transition here?

Just my 2 Cents :-)

19-07-2007, 12:21 PM
Transition masses; I like it. Describing and sounds good.
2 cent from me too.

Early masses Zwv 1-3
Middle masses Zwv 4-13
Transition masses Zwv 14-16
Late masses Zwv 17-21

Thank you David for your feedback. Gives us motivation to continue.

21-07-2007, 10:13 AM
Hi again,

I have used last days of my vacation wisely, at least from a Zelenka entusiast point of viuw, and finished Dona Nobis Pacem from Zwv 14. The movement is part of Kyrie, first part without the first 4 bars.