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Thread: ZWV 3 Missa Corporis Domini

  1. #1

    Default ZWV 3 Missa Corporis Domini

    Hello,

    We are some people discussing the ZWV3 with in the end a performance project by Elwro. You will find a link to the scores in the "Free scores" thread.
    After some emails, and mp3s, we continue here to get any suggestion.
    The first posts on this subject are in the thread "Free scores".

    The main harmonical headaches are in bars 25-26 of the Et resurrexit.
    Here is my last answer to Elwro. I wrote this before new suggestions by Germund.

    Crucifixus : I added the figured bass and the alternate older bars 11-15.

    Et resurrexit:
    I noticed that the page starting with bar 31 has a sharp in the key, hence my added sharps to F seems ok.

    1. Text "Surrexit": It seems to be intentional in order to synchronize the Tenore with the Alto. It may be an error, but I saw it in the Credo of ZWV9 : the Et resurrexit in bars 103 to 108 (page 45) uses "surrexit" in all voices, it is clearly written in the full score, moreover in each chorus parts.

    2. The Tenore is B, the Viola is closer to B than A.
    Changed for B.

    3. Bar 15. I did some errors in Viola and Alto :
    - Viola the first G is longer - Alto the entrance is like the others, excepted the first note which is a quarter, preceded by a quarter silence. It may avoid a clash with the Soprano.
    Fixed only my errors for now.

    4. Bar 19, Violini, only the sharp of F is indicated. In bar 20, Basso, all sharps are present.
    Changed G to G#.

    5. Bars 26,27
    1. Bar 26, 3rd beat, the score has in BC B and [#5, n3], and D natural in Sop. and Ob2.
    Changed my D# back to original D.

    2. Bar 26, Violini, F -> F#, ok

    3. Bar 26, Violini, G -> G#, ok
    Bar 27, Violini, C -> C#, ok

    6. Bar 24, Tenore is C but BC is E with 5, and S/Ob2 are B
    Changed Tenore C to B

    Best regards,
    SK

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Default

    Hello,

    In bar 15, the alto also needs to be changed to match the violas. ("Cum" should have an eighth note, preceded by an eighth rest.)

    Also, regarding bars 25-26, I feel completely convinced by G.R. that there was a mistake in the oboes (a second eighth rest should be inserted after the first eighth rest in bar 25, so that the melody is "pushed to the right" for a short segment).

    "I noticed that the page starting with bar 31 has a sharp in the key, hence my added sharps to F seems ok."
    That's very interesting! By any chance, does any of the preceding pages also have a sharp in the key? It would explain why there was no sharp near the f notes in e.g. violins in bar 27 (where the note to be played is clearly f sharp).

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwro
    Hello,

    In bar 15, the alto also needs to be changed to match the violas. ("Cum" should have an eighth note, preceded by an eighth rest.)

    Also, regarding bars 25-26, I feel completely convinced by G.R. that there was a mistake in the oboes (a second eighth rest should be inserted after the first eighth rest in bar 25, so that the melody is "pushed to the right" for a short segment).

    "I noticed that the page starting with bar 31 has a sharp in the key, hence my added sharps to F seems ok."
    That's very interesting! By any chance, does any of the preceding pages also have a sharp in the key? It would explain why there was no sharp near the f notes in e.g. violins in bar 27 (where the note to be played is clearly f sharp).
    Hello,

    I'm convinced too, it sounds nice now.
    It is very hard to read distinct signs in the digital copy.
    It seems no accidentals have been omitted, just key changes, I'm looking to place key changes in the score at right places.

    SK
    Last edited by skiaouros; 23-04-2013 at 11:42 PM.

  4. #4
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    Apr 2008
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    Default

    Hello,

    Sorry for the delay - I just wanted to report that recently I've been quite deeply involved in research connected with my PhD and giving classes (the exam session at my university is coming), and thus could devote less time to the scores. I have a growing list of comments, and will post them hopefully in one of the coming days.

    LW.

  5. #5
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    Apr 2008
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    Hi all,

    we've had two rehearsals featuring (apart from some Haydn) ZWV 3. The music is simply breathtaking... and difficult :-) Everything is going as planned. But we still didn't sing Et resurrexit since it contains the errors we've been talking about here, and I don't want to explain it to the rest of the choir :-)

    Since I now have Cubase, and I remember Skiaouros saying he used Cubase to edit the score... could I have the "source" files? (Not the MIDIs!) I think it'd be very convenient if I could prepare final version of the scores for our performance myself - you see, there are lots of minor things like putting syllables on different notes (or changing the metrum in a few measures of Dona nobis) that take a whole lot of time to write about, but are simple to implement. I'd prepare all the orchestral parts, too.

    Of course, I'd post the complete scores (and parts) for everyone to use.

    Best regards,

    LW.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Default Re: ZWV 3 Missa Corporis Domini

    I returned to working on the score. I'm writing a new version from scratch in Lilypond. I spotted a few things in Kyrie II:

    measure 69, violino I: the second note should be D#, not D
    measure 73/4, the violas should match the tenors (and they are a second too high)
    measure 55: the long note of the first oboe is certainly D, not E
    measure 65: the first note of the tenors has to be F#, not F

    Apart from that, a few other things:
    - parallel fifths violin 1 - oboe 2 in measure 72/73 (not changing -- they make sense motivically)
    - in measure 73 oboe 1 is similar, but a bit different from soprano; similarly, oboe 2 is a bit different from alto. Wondering whether it sounds OK or not, didn't make up my own mind yet )

    edit: some more stuff:
    measure 82: in the BC, the fourth "7" should definitely come on the 3rd eighth note from the end of the measure, cf. the altos.

    But I have another question regarding measure 26. This sounded awkward during the rehearsals due to the "suspension" from the sopranos. But shouldn't they simply sing the "d" as a quarter note instead of a half note?
    Last edited by Elwro; 31-01-2011 at 07:45 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: ZWV 3 Missa Corporis Domini

    I am the librarian for a period instrument orchestra in London. We are a non-professional orchestra and a registered charity. Our conductor is keen to perform ZWV 3 at our next concert.

    Would any of those who have been preparing this edition be willing to provide parts, either in electronic format or hardcopy, with performance permissions, and if so, what would your charges be?

    I noticed from the score that has been made available online, the Gloria is missing. Is this because it is not extant, or because the manuscript was not available online, or because it is illegible?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: ZWV 3 Missa Corporis Domini

    Hi CrazyC,

    please check your private messages - I just sent you one.

    Best regards,

    L.

  9. #9
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    Apr 2008
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    Default Re: ZWV 3 Missa Corporis Domini

    As an update on my score-revising activities, there's something seriously wrong in the alto voice in Credo, measure 35 (the f is too low and clashes with the soprano f sharp). I'm changing it so that the voice matches the violins.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: ZWV 3 Missa Corporis Domini

    Closely looking at the source, I realised that the "violoncello ripieno" part actually DOES differ from BC in the Credo in a few places, and thus will have to be included in the score!

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