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Thread: Zwv 14

  1. #1

    Default Zwv 14

    Hi all,

    At last I have made midifiles of all movements of Zwv 14. They are uploaded in repository if you like to get an idea how the mass sounds. Skiaouros will make better sound with mp3 later this year.

    Missa Sancti Josephi is different from other masses. No doubt Zelenka tried very hard to "meet the audience", changing his style drastically. The change from Zwv 13 Missa Gratias agimus tibi to Zwv 14 Sancti Josephi is so huge that I had several times wondered if this mass indeed was written by Jan.
    The heavy use of windintrument is remarkable. He uses flutes,oboes,bassoon, horns and trumpets in the same movement. The windinstruments got lots of solo material.

    KYRIE (Mp3 available)
    Written in one movement, Gloria starts with an unusual slow introduction of 4 bars. The 4 bars theme reapear later when chorus enter. Usually Zelenka would start with an instrumental allegro, followed by a slow chorus entry, and return to allegro theme with choir and orchestra.
    The main theme is also non typical Zelenka. Sounds more like a classical composer writing a mass in "old style".
    If one look for "Zelenka trademarks" I would say the change sudden change between major/minor is apparent in this movement.
    My favorite part of this movement (time 3:15) is when the main theme is used as fugue, the 2.trompet starts, followed by 1.trompet, then 2.horn.

    Written in 8 movements.
    *Gloria begins with a riternello which reminds me of the last chorus in Credo Zwv13. There the resemblance ends. Rest of the movement a pair of voices "call and anwer" each other. In between tutti makes its entrance, making the whole piece varied and interesting listening to. Nice piece.
    *Et Incarnatus is a grave movement, where the violas play 1/8 beats notes and the voices (S,A,T,B,B) sing long notes. Beautiful.
    *Laudamus is a lovely aria, where a pair of voices have solo with 2 oboes and 2 flutes. Nice drive and makes me happy listening to it. The tenor have a very interesting passage (time 3:15-3:35).
    *Qui Tollis a short fugue.
    *Suscipe is a dramatic piece. Doesnt sound very Zelenka.
    *Qui Sedes is one of the oddest baroque pieces I ever heard, and the oddest by Zelenka. But so very interesting to listen to. Movement begins with a typical Vivaldi riternello, followed by an off beat slavic folk tune with an offbeat bass. The two themes play two times, then comes a classical theme in the voices. Then Zelenka begin to mix the three themes. Cool.
    *Quoniam is an aria. Cute.
    *Cum Sancto Spiritu is utterly brilliant chorus. The end of the piece sounds more classical than baroque. Have I listened to this piece many times...

    CREDO was sadly not composed for this mass.

    Written in 4 movements.
    *Sanctus begins with a short slow introduction followed by lively vivace. Another movement sounding more and more classical as it develops. Nice choral piece.
    *Osanna I is a short slow choral movement. Nothing out of the ordinary.
    *Benedictus reminds me somewhat of the aria Zwv 29. Sounds Zelenka. Nice.
    *Osanna II is another short choral movement.

    Written in 2 movements.
    *Agnus dei is a slow aria. Reminds very little of Zelenka. Nice thou.
    *Dona Nobis is a short version of Kyrie.

    Some parts of the score was heavy damaged by water, so this was real challenge figuring out the whole score. Hope I made it as much up to the composer original. 1 of 4 bars is damaged or totally gone on many pages.
    Handwriting is Zelenkas, and the piece bear markings of being composed not copied. I think it was composed by him.

    Do you think this mass was composed by Zelenka ?
    If, what is your opinion why it sound so different from his other masses ?

    My next project is Zwv 6 Missa Fidei. First movement is uploaded.

  2. #2



    At first let me say a big "Thank you!" for the work you did. Concerning the difficulties you must have had with the handwritten and damaged autograph, it appears to me that you did a very good job.

    Concerning the question whether ZWV 14 is really composed by Zelenka, I dare to think so. Being the first of his "transition masses" as we put it, Zelenka will have been eager to show that he was indeed able to meet the style which has become modern with Hasse in Dresden 1733. You say that the handwriting shows signs of composing rather than being just a copy. Could you please upload a jpg to the repository in order to illustrate that? Just curious.

    Is it possible that it has been for lithurgical reasons that Zelenka did not compose the Credo for this mass? If I remember correctly this is also the reason why Mozart at first did not compose a Credo for his Missa in c minor.

    Now I am very curious to listen to the mp3 which are hopefully following soon. All we need now is an inspired ensemble which puts this splendid composition on CD. By the way, does anybody know something about the recognition of Zelenkas music after his mass ZWV 16 has been published?

    Best wishes! David

  3. #3

    Default Zwv 14

    I am a bit confused about what you mean. Do you mean now that there is a recording of ZWV 16?

    ps3 jailbreak
    Last edited by paperMoon; 27-01-2011 at 05:09 PM.

  4. #4


    Confused? Don't be! You got it right!

  5. #5

    Default ZWV14 Et in terra pax

    First, great thanks to Germund for working on the manuscripts, it is fun
    to work on the mp3s.

    The 'Et in terra pax' (EITP) in ZWV14 is similar to my ears to three composers :

    - Lotti's Mass for Three Choirs written while in Dresden (1717-19) (CD Centaur CRC 2376) Listen the quietness and energy crescendo in the EITP.
    It is one of my favorite works (Kyrie & EITP), if you like JD Zelenka harmonies, you will love it. Lotti's manuscript is in Harvard and AFAIK not published, if anyone can help...
    Antonio Lotti has been a teacher to JDZ (according to Fürstenau cited by Stockigt), he worked at least in Venice (San Marco) and Dresden.

    - Another Venitian Antonio : Vivaldi with its beautiful Glorias RV588/589 and the descending motive of Pax on earth and heart.

    - Giovanni Maria Ruggieri (?/1690-?/1715), Gloria RV Anh 23, cited in Michael Talbot 'The sacred vocal music of A. Vivaldi', Vivaldi owned many scores of him and may have borrowed from his Gloria.

    That EITP form may have been a long tradition and offers an opportunity to compare the different developments and natures of feelings.
    Zelenka owned score copies of both Antonios.

    I would be glad to know about other similar examples.

    Last edited by skiaouros; 29-04-2008 at 06:20 PM.

  6. #6


    Im very happy Mr.Mp3 himself is back. The three movements (Gloria, EITP and Laudamus) sounds very good. And choir sing the texts! Looks like the you and the new software are compatible
    Interesting read about what composer and works might/probably inspired Zelenka for this mass.

    David; I send you a few pages over mail. But first I need to get my hands on the full acrobate program, so I can save a few pages from the full PDF file.

  7. #7


    Hello G.Reuss!

    How big are the files? I have access to a DSL cable LAN so that I can receive quite big files via e-mail easily.

    Best wishes! David

  8. #8


    Hi David,

    Please look in private message for my mail.



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