View Full Version : Obtaining scores

31-07-2006, 12:08 PM
I ordered at www.breitkopf.com (http://www.breitkopf.com) the Missae Ultimae, Miserere and Laudate Puerii in D.
I just received the order and I realized that all the Missae are only "choral score" and have printed on each page "PROBE-PARTITUR", the Miserere is even printed on read paper and it makes it difficult to read.
The only full partiture with continuo realization is "Laudate Puerii", which is publisched by "dvfm"

I was looking for the complete score or the "realized continuo" score or organ score (Breitkopf's editions of Bach's cantatas have the organ part which is the continuo with realization to be played on the organ).

Does anyone knows if the score is available for these works (Missa Sanctissimae Trinitatis, Missae Ultimae, Miserere)?

Thank you in advance
Beppe Picaro

05-08-2006, 01:35 PM
The published full scores :

ZWV 17, Missa Sanctissimae Trinitatis a-Moll
Das Erbe Deutscher Musik Band 103, Breitkopf & Härtel, 1987

ZWV 21, Missa ultimarum sexta: Missa Omnium Sanctorum a-Moll
Das Erbe Deutscher Musik Band 101, Breitkopf & Härtel, 1989

ZWV 57, Miserere c-Moll
Das Erbe Deutscher Musik Band 108, Breitkopf & Härtel, 1997

They are expensive in hardcover, cloth, with facsimile, and "realized continuo".
Maybe these are not listed in their online catalog, but available by special order to sales dpt.
Or you can try second hand books, a good metasearch is www.eurobuch.com.

Good luck.

07-08-2006, 02:47 PM
Ah, at last... I have seen the site http://www.erbedeutschermusik.de and I must say it doesn't explain too much.

If you have any books from them can you please tell me what to expect, they are enough expensive to deserve a little description or sample, which unfortunately is not given at the erber deutscher musik web site.

Do they really have the basso continuo realisation (for the poor organ/harpsichord player who is too slow/busy/lazy/ignorant to develop hos/her own)?
And there is the whole facsimile score as well?
Interesting (and, alas, a bit expensive too).

Thank you again.


08-08-2006, 11:05 PM

They contain around 280 pages and the size is 32x25cm.
There is a text in german, a few facsimile examples, the full choral and orchestral score, the usual basso continuo with a figured bass (not a keyboard reduction), and a critic text about the sources and edition.

You can purchase digital copies of the original manuscripts 0.30€ per page (difficult to read but they have the figured bass by the author) from the SLUB library (http://www.tu-dresden.de/slub/).


09-08-2006, 08:16 AM
Thank you for your explanation.
Unfortunately I cannot speak nor read German :-(
I thought that for that price the full facsimile was included, but probably these are special editions for scholars and not best sellers.

I tried searching the SLUB libary, which was not an easy attempt for he or she who doesn't understand German, and the only manuscript I could see is one page from the Missa St. Cecilae at

Since you wrote about manuscripts my hope was to see a a little more :-)

The manuscripts at: http://www.jdzelenka.net/manuscripts.htm are much easier to read.

Thank you again for your information.

16-01-2010, 01:03 PM

I have just discovered Zelenka's music, and I am trying to get the full score (or sheet music) of the ZWV 57 Miserere, and it is starting to feel as it is impossible...

I do not mind if this is an expensive book.

Please, could somebody tell me where to by that full score.

Thank you in advance and best regards.


17-01-2010, 10:33 AM

honey oil (http://trichomes.org/hashish/honey-oil)

17-01-2010, 06:26 PM

Thank you, paperMoon, for you so fast answer. I think the link you sent me conduces to the choral part (at least, that is what some of the people into the forum said, and also because it is only a 16 pages book), so finally, in the Breitkopf page (good clue) I have orden a book, as part as the "Das Erbe Deutscher Musik" collection that I hope (this si quite expensive) is going to have the complete work (including instrumental).

I will tell you if I am wrong as soon as I received the order... I am impatient from now.

Best regards,


21-01-2010, 10:08 PM
Hello everybody,

I have received today the book from Brietkopf@Harsel and contais all the instruments together.

Concerning the Miserere, I am very surprised because it is not a real c-moll composition, does somebody know why that is a c-moll composition?
For me, it seems as a G-moll, because the third bemol appears only in some ocasions and this is creating some very strong crashes between sounds.

Sorry for my english, perhaps I did not explain it very well, but I hope somebody could understand me.

Thank you in advance.


22-01-2010, 01:39 PM

Interesting question that would require a full analysis of the harmony in the piece, (beginning very similar to prelude BWV847) here are some unsure points :

1) Layout of the work (x : X minor, X : X major):
1. Miserere I : c-v (v = dominant of c : g)
2. Miserere II : C
3. Gloria Patri I : e
4. Gloria Patri II : Cv-v (Cv = G, ends on dominant = D)
5. Sicut erat : C-v
6. Miserere II : c-v

2) The key has two flats (Dorian notation) as for G minor, although the C minor is the first established tonality. Two comments : first the theory of key notation wasn't fixed at that time, the number of accidents may vary. Also as G minor (dominant of C minor) is mainly used, the notation is more simple.

3) The main cadences are on 'us' of Deus : ms 24, 29 : in C minor.

4) In the bass, on most G, the figured bass includes the C in inverted chords.

5) It seems to be an exploitation of the harmonic modulation between tonic and dominant, giving an expansion/elevation effect, like a long dominant pedal. Used inside the movement, and between the pieces.


06-02-2010, 04:33 PM

It is really annoying, that one cannot get the full scores of Zelenkas most important masses and other liturgical works! :mad:
When I listened to Zelenkas Miserere in c the first time at the radio, it was like falling in love by the first sight (chord)...
So I started collecting every score and recording of Zelenkas music, I was able to get. (By the way: you really should pay attention on the Responsoria pro Hebdomada Sancta; One could say, that these 27 Motets are Zelenkas "Manifestation of Counterpoint and harmonic Invention")

As I was not able to get the score of the Miserere, I ordered copies the autograph score and the parts in Dresden (you can really hardly read the autograph...) and started editing my own score of this masterpiece.

Best regards,